1984 Aero 50 Compatibility

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richdavison34
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1984 Aero 50 Compatibility

Post by richdavison34 »

I have a 1984 Aero 50 ME. This thing was recovered from a junk yard, and has been a long interesting journey ever since. I have successfully gotten the carb for a 1987 Aero to work with mine. Required some longer bolts to mount the carb, and a slight mod to the throttle cable.

My question is...do you know of any other parts that are compatible with the 84 Aero (with or without mods). There are a few variator kits out there that I'm very curious about. I have had my variator apart before to re-grease the rollers, so I know what all the parts look like. The polini kits look very similiar to this. Anybody tried putting one on an 84 Aero before. For some reason all the performance parts pretty much start at 1985 and on.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

- Noob
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Re: 1984 Aero 50 Compatibility

Post by Wheelman-111 »

Greetings:

Aeros from '83-'84 are rare, even here. AFAIK nobody has modded one extensively. Show pics of yours, especially the belt cavity and transmission cover engine code?

If you measure your variator's Pulley Boss - the thick steel cylinder threaded onto the crank end - I'll be better able to tell you if the Polini et. al. variators are compatible. SE/05 engines (on '85-'87 Aeros) and SA/16 engines have a different Inside Diameter matching their respective crankshaft dimensions but the same Outer Diameter, which means it's possible to use the Aftermarket variators on either one simply by retaining the stock boss. I'm not sure about the OD mm value. Something like 17mm, but I can check tonight. If your OD is the same, there's a good chance the later-model aftermarket will fit.

BTW Honda-san himself stopped using grease and that o-ringed cover in 1994 or so. Eliminating the cover may increase your variator's available travel and improve your "overdrive" right away.
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Re: 1984 Aero 50 Compatibility

Post by richdavison34 »

Wheelman,

Thanks for the quick response. I will get you some pics of the scoot as soon as possible. I have finals early this week, but I should be able to get some up Wednesday.
I found some variator parts on ebay (polini) and emailed the guy who was selling them to inquire about compatability. He said the rollers would definitely work, but wasn't sure about full on variator compatability.

Until I get the pics up...there are some specifics as far as measurements of various variator components located in the service manual for my scoot. ....http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewto ... f=11&t=680....

Not sure if those will help or not, but it should be a good start at least.

You'll have to forgive my ignorance/noobness involving your reference to Honda-san. What O-ringed cover are you refering to?

I have another question about capability as well. There is a CDI unit on ebay that says it's compatible with the NB50...(same guy in Hawaii that sells the variator stuff). He said his guess is that it probably will not work with my scoot...what is your opinion? The eBay item title is ......PERFORMANCE CDI ELITE SE50 SE50P SPREE NQ50 AERO NB50 #250795503937". .....

She is running great right now with the new carb installed, and tops out around 37ish. I know this is already pretty good considering what she is, but if I can squeeze out some better performace with some relatively inexpensive transmission mods, I'm definitely down to try.

Thanks!
"Normality is an illusion rooted in the disease of fear, the unafflicted labeled insane".

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Re: 1984 Aero 50 Compatibility

Post by Wheelman-111 »

Greetings:

Quoth RD34:
You'll have to forgive my ignorance/noobness involving your reference to Honda-san. What O-ringed cover are you refering to?
The '86 and '87 Aeros for sure have a sheetmetal cover backing up the ramp plate, closest to the engine block side of the crank. It has an o-ring around the edge, and is held on by three 7mm hex-head screws. It's designed to retain the grease that Honda-san used to believe this assembly needed. He later decided to omit the grease and the cover altogether. You can too.

I would be more confident in saying whether or not the Aftermarket variators work on your '84 if I could see the stock assembly. Later Aero belt spec was 15.5mm new, replace under 14.5 or somesuch. If you have the same belt, then the width dimensions should be the same. The Thickness dimensions - pulley boss Outer and Inner diameters - are most likely the same. If all this is true, then you can mount up a Keli, Koso, Polini or other Aero/elite aftermarket vario assembly.
I have another question about capability as well. There is a CDI unit on ebay that says it's compatible with the NB50...
If there's nothing wrong with your current Ignition Control Module, leave it alone. There is NOTHING to be gained (and a lot of reliability to lose) with some cloned Chinese unit. Save the money for a new belt and good oil.

With any luck, the variator and a new belt will increase your speed to 40-ish. OK downwind, but still...
I hope you can let us know if it works.
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Re: 1984 Aero 50 Compatibility

Post by Wheelman-111 »

Greetings:

OK I finally had time to review the FSM in your link. Them "M"s is wacky!
Evidently '84s use a 14mm belt. The OD of the pulley boss is 22mm, which sounds about right, but I dunno the belt angle. If it's 30 degrees, an aftermarket Vario might still work using your current boss. The varios work on the later models because they can raise the belt higher - toward the pulley rims - thus increasing "overdrive". However on the '84, the increased face "travel" won't help much if the belt can't go further outward to make a bigger circle. The pulleys may not be as large in diameter and they're already closer together.

All is not lost if you can install a longer '87 pulley boss and then run a 15.5 belt and an '87 rear pulley assembly - something that will depend on the stock '84 belt length. Finally, the cover may need to be shimmed out ~1.5mm, which may create alignment problems with the weird "inside-drive" kickstarter. Whew! I don't know if it's worth the trouble, but hope you try.
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Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
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Re: 1984 Aero 50 Compatibility

Post by richdavison34 »

Let me start out by saying that Wikispreedia is worthy of a Nobel Prize.

Ok, first thing...is it possible to even find a 14mm belt? That may be the first big issue.

After doing a little reading your terminologies are making a lot more sense to me.

For the sake of this conversation, let's say that my belt angle is 30 degrees, and that I'm able to find a 14mm belt. Instead of purchasing a longer boss and a new rear pulley assembly to accompany a 15.5 mm belt, could I just order a boss of the same dimensions as mine and take it to a machine shop a get it cut down to a shorter lenth? This would allow me take advantage of the added "travel" provided to me by a larger diameter aftermarket variator, while preventing me from having to purchase an 87' rear pulley assembly. This would also take care of our concerns about belt lenth, and the possbile kick starter issues.

Would this cause an issue with how low the belt is able to travel at rest? I'm also thinking that I need to get some new "pressure plates" as they were for my clutch assembly. Mine are shiny and glass-like.

The machine shop idea would of course have to be on a trial and error basis. Probably something like getting it cut down a couple of mm at a time and using a sharpie or something of that nature to draw on the drive face and see how high the markings are worn off. If it's not high enough, take a couple of more mm off.

Thanks!
"Normality is an illusion rooted in the disease of fear, the unafflicted labeled insane".

"The removal of ignorance is more important that the acquisition of knowledge."

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Re: 1984 Aero 50 Compatibility

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Ok, I know exactly what you are talking about know with the O-ringed grease retainig system. I have personally taken this thing apart and re-greased it. It was a while ago, but it seems like along with retaining the grease that "backing plate" also had some retaining properties in regards to the ramp plate and rollers. What will keep the ramp plate a rollers from siding out of the variator and making contact with the crank case?
"Normality is an illusion rooted in the disease of fear, the unafflicted labeled insane".

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Re: 1984 Aero 50 Compatibility

Post by richdavison34 »

I may have answered my own question with a thought experiment. The moveable face will be able to travel farther due to it's newfound freedom that comes with it's increased ability to travel relative to the ramp plate because the grease retention plate won't be there to stop it.
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Re: 1984 Aero 50 Compatibility

Post by Wheelman-111 »

Greetings:

I recommend you first disassemble and really thoroughly clean all the surfaces of residual grease. Vario casting, backing plate, ramp guides and rollers too. Don't forget the inside holes of the rollers. If there's any grease at all sequestered in some cranny, it'll spin out of the coverless variator causing all manner of Chaos in the belt cavity.

Manual says: "Do not allow any oily substance to come in contact with the pulleys or belt." or words to that effect. I always wash my hands prior to final assembly, and hit the pulley faces with an acetone-soaked clean paper towel, but you may be less anal-retentive than I.

Now drop your squeaky-clean rollers into the vario and slide the ramp plate with its guides on top. Keeping the two discs squeezed firmly together, pick it up and insert the pulley boss from the front side. If you let go, the rollers usually dislocate and you get to start over. If your're ready, slide the assembled variator back onto the crank end, sans the grease cover.

The cover lives behind the ramp plate, and when the movable face, uhh... Moves, its travel is limited by the cover bumping into the ramp plate - at least it does on some later models.
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
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Re: 1984 Aero 50 Compatibility

Post by Bear45-70 »

richdavison34 wrote:Ok, I know exactly what you are talking about know with the O-ringed grease retainig system. I have personally taken this thing apart and re-greased it. It was a while ago, but it seems like along with retaining the grease that "backing plate" also had some retaining properties in regards to the ramp plate and rollers. What will keep the ramp plate a rollers from siding out of the variator and making contact with the crank case?
You needed to eliminate the grease and the backing plate that covers the "O"ring. The grease is not needed anymore as Honda found out. Replace the rollers with new ones as the new material does not need grease and the rear plate limits variator movement, hence top speed. They can't come out, not enough movement or space.
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Image

'83 Aero 80 X 3
'84 Aero 80 X 3

'85 Aero 80
'84 Aero 125 X 2
'84 Aero 125
'84 Aero 125 X 2
'85 Aero 50
'85 Spree
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Re: 1984 Aero 50 Compatibility

Post by richdavison34 »

Good deal!

I'll prob be ordering a new belt, roller weights, and some new "clutch pads" (have no idea what these are called) in the next couple of weeks.

Hopefull I'll be able to find the belt and pads available somewhere.
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Re: 1984 Aero 50 Compatibility

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Here are some pics of my transmission parts, and engine code. Looks like my belt isn't riding all the way up the variator. Is it safe to call this "room for improvement" in regard to top speed?
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"Normality is an illusion rooted in the disease of fear, the unafflicted labeled insane".

"The removal of ignorance is more important that the acquisition of knowledge."

1984 Honda Aero 50.
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Re: 1984 Aero 50 Compatibility

Post by richdavison34 »

You can see from the last pic that the clutch pads are just about gone.
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"Normality is an illusion rooted in the disease of fear, the unafflicted labeled insane".

"The removal of ignorance is more important that the acquisition of knowledge."

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Re: 1984 Aero 50 Compatibility

Post by Bear45-70 »

Did you measure the belt? It looks worn and if it is at or below minimum width, the belt will not ride all the way out on the variator.
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'83 Aero 80 X 3
'84 Aero 80 X 3

'85 Aero 80
'84 Aero 125 X 2
'84 Aero 125
'84 Aero 125 X 2
'85 Aero 50
'85 Spree
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Re: 1984 Aero 50 Compatibility

Post by richdavison34 »

Did you measure the belt? It looks worn and if it is at or below minimum width, the belt will not ride all the way out on the variator.
Did you measure the belt? It looks worn and if it is at or below minimum width, the belt will not ride all the way out on the variator.
No, didn't measure it. It is still in relatively good condition, but who knows when/if that belt was last changed. That will be #1 on my new parts ordering list.
"Normality is an illusion rooted in the disease of fear, the unafflicted labeled insane".

"The removal of ignorance is more important that the acquisition of knowledge."

1984 Honda Aero 50.
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