Met 660 x 18 x 28 Belt in ZX Trans?

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

I just ordered a Met belt as a gift for my brother's 2004. The vendor sent me a Ruckus one; his listing was wrong. It's 785mm long, or about 4" too long for Met and Elites. Maybe it's the fat tires on the Ruck needing a longer swingarm? Anyway, the Ruck belt is too long for an Elite with ZX pulleys.

The Metropolitan scooter's belt has an interesting length; at 661mm. This almost splits the difference between pokey-takeoff/High Top Speed 654mm belts for ZX and the Better take-off/lower top speed 669 ZX belt. Width is 18, that'll work. But Met-spec is 28 degrees of V-Angle, not 30. Is this a Big Deal. Might run on the inside belt "teeth" awhile until it wears in and be slippery, right? To my knowledge, nobody's reported using a Met belt on a ZX trans so far.

My brother may be getting a "slightly used" belt when I give it to him. Aw, heck! If it works, I'll get him another one. Or maybe use the new one and still give him the old one, I dunno. I'll report in Flash 6 once the correct Met belt arrives.

[LMH]

My metro uses a 660 belt, but the engines are the same from the ruckus or the metro. Its the same GET engine. I wonder why different belts. Ill have to check out the neighbors ruck.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

LMH Axt-ed:

I wonder why different belts.

I suspect the 130/90 x 10 rear tire requires a little longer swingarm to clear the tire. The engines for 2014 are Very different, and the belts never have swapped as far as I know. This is a Q for the TotalRuckus Forum, but all the mets use 660 or 661 Nominal belt size. (Ssshhh!! Secret Belt-Guru way of measuring to produce a meaningless "mean" number. Wrapping a tape measure around the belt always results in ~8-12mm bigger than the size printed on the rubber. Don' tell nobody.)

[LMH]

The ruckus is noticeably longer when I sat my metro next to it. Good to know for sure, I kept the met stock minus using the ruck needle and jet with a Uni drop in. He said hes got a metro variator and a 685 belt on his which isnt stock but hes got all kinds of junk going on on it.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

SO... Nobody has dared slip a Metro belt over a ZX pulley?

[LMH]

Do it!

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings.

I did it! The Met belt hangs just 3mm below the rim; the 669 was almost flush with the rim. The 654 rode 5-6mm from the rim. If it made any difference in take-off, I couldn't tell. 2 degrees of angle don't seem to matter so far either.

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I had a Gates Kevlar 669 on there before. Tape measured to 681mm. This "660" measured out at 673. The 669 runs a little "flappy" and suffers scrapes on the outer side despite clearanced case. Maybe the tighter 660 won't, but either way it's more of a cosmetic issue so far.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

If you mean the three little plastic ramp plate guides in the variator, no. I have worn out a set on a Polini vario that saw duty in 3 engines and about 3000 miles, but none have broken prematurely. Why do you ask?

[LMH]

Pulleys do run on angles, or tapers.

[LMH]

Unfortunately we're talking about a cvt.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

I liked that site's explanation that a pulley trades speed for torque or torque for speed. CVTs in scooters do both in the case of the bigger ZX pulley, torque is greater thanks to the bigger startup diameter of the rear sheaves.

But unlike car V-Belts, the CVT DOESN'T require a preset tension via an idler gear. The Contra spring determines the static tension. The stronger +1K or +1.5K springs do grip the belt tighter, but as long as it doesn't bottom out against the clutch shaft, there's no danger of belt breakage.

ZX trans takes 654mm stock, so a 660 is actually a little more insurance against that. The only issue that concerns me is the. 28-degree V angle. I expect that to wear in to trivial quickly.

[LMH]

You're still not understanding concepts of gearing and cvts. Research cvt not pulleys for cars, just do that for the next few days then come back.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Nobody (I think...) believes pulleys produce power. However they do deliver the engine's power in more usable form to the clutch shaft. Unlike a single-speed Spree - which also uses rear pulley spring tension to keep the belt tension just right -The variated engines provide high-torque "Underdrive" when the belt is in the "idle" position. This assists in smart take-offs.

Then shifting through the midrange, Through an infinity of "middle gears" with the engine speed more or less constant. The cam on the rear pulley ensures prompt throttle response and a "down-shift" when you want to step it up.

Finally the system gives high-speed "Overdrive" when the variator fully compresses at the front, once again keeping the RPMs where they do the most good until the variator maxes out. After that, it's HP vs CD.*

If this weren't so, then Honda-san went to a whole lotta trouble for nothin'. Despite the complete absence of automotive-type computer controls, the weight/spring equation works great when everything matches the engine's output characteristics.

_________________
Wheelman-111
Founder: WHAC (Wheelman's Home for Abandoned 'Cycles)
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
Flash 5 '01 SA50 72cc Malossi MHR and Stuffer Crank OKO 28mm PG Short, ZX Trans, 7.58:1

*HorsePower vs. Coefficient of Drag

[LMH]

Never ever has anyone said a cvt produces power, you're pulling words out of no where. You're just talking to talk. It's clear you're good at regurgitating online info it's just too bad it has no relevance to what's going on with a cvt. it's very clear you don't want to understand its not a fixed pulley and fixed pulley systems are not what you're dealing with. I'm holding my tongue right now.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

I agree that like the Spree, the variated engines start off with a low belt ratio: small belt loop in front, big one out back. UNLIKE a Spree, the ratio CHANGES with increasing RPM, as the rollers migrate out toward the rim of the variator. The front sheaves squeeze the belt, which then must migrate to the Drive Face rim and the back loop gets pulled toward center. Now the big loop is in front and the Smaller loop is in back. All this is balanced by the Contra spring, which tends to make the rear loop bigger again as pulling force decreases and RPM drops off throttle.

The ZX rear pulley, along with a longer belt, makes the back loop even bigger. This results in a shorter belt ratio, partly making up for tall 7.58:1 gears. To keep the same belt Overdrive, I added the Polini for ruckus 95mm front pulley.

Radial Sharpie marks illustrate how much of the face the belt uses, as the belt erases where it travels. The 669 doesn't produce all the Overdrive I want even with the PFR. Vario. The 654 makes for a tall take-off ratio. I figure the Met 660 splits the diff, and so far it's run well.

I don't know where you think I should look for Trenches. Given that the Malossi puts 150-class power through pulleys sized for a 4-HP 50, a set of sliders every 18 months or so is acceptable to me.
Variators belts and rollers wear out, predictably, but part of the FUN (look into that...) lies in trying new combinations.

So, thanks for your concern, but after 4 years I'm comfortable with my setup. If you can define a better way, i'll read with interest.