Not getting all the way on pipe

Does your Spree/Elite already run great, and you're trying to make it quicker/faster? Need a monster motor swap? Discuss your ideas here.

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nateberrier
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Not getting all the way on pipe

Post by nateberrier » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:11 pm

I still need to do some research, and I suspect this may be a carb issue, but I figured I would ask the old hats.

I have an AF16 with stuffy crank, fabrizi pipe, corsa jug, and polini pwk 24.

The pipe seems like it turns on around 9k and with just 1/4 or less throttle it seems to roll into the pipe and go. If I really open it up, it seems like its resonating weird/ almost like a drumming sound if that makes sense. A glance at rpms tells me its at ~10k rpms. it doesnt seem like it wants to stand up on it higher than that, but I figure this should be revving much higher. It almost seems like at part throttle it revs higher then comes back down when on full throttle. Im guessing this is because its too rich?

Im using 5g weights, stock belt 1k contra and 6k springs with malossi fly clutch.

cruising around in 45-50 degree weather it seems like it never wants to get over 250 degrees, i never get full throttle long as its a little terrifying on the stock gears, though I have some 9.8s im going to switch in soon. Max temps so far have been under 300 .

running 45 pilot and I think 125main to start per MVS recommendations, I did have a 118 to start but to be honest i never really pushed it full throttle on the main.
1986 Aero White -- Stock With Keli Var
1985 Aero Red -- Af05 Malossi BBK + Keli Var
1985 Aero Red -- Af16 Corsa / Fabrizi Pipe / Polini 24 PWK / Athena Stuffer Crank

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Re: Not getting all the way on pipe

Post by bonesv » Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:45 pm

Try a 42 pilot and don’t change anything else. Note rpm’s and temps and order some 120-122 main jets. The cooler ambient temps pack lots more O2 but you definitely still sound rich.
Once the cylinder is broken in, you can run it rich if you’re mostly wot. Just change the spark plug often.
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Re: Not getting all the way on pipe

Post by nateberrier » Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:37 pm

bonesv wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:45 pm
Try a 42 pilot and don’t change anything else. Note rpm’s and temps and order some 120-122 main jets. The cooler ambient temps pack lots more O2 but you definitely still sound rich.
Once the cylinder is broken in, you can run it rich if you’re mostly wot. Just change the spark plug often.
My Jet Kit goes up to 40, but Ill see if that is fat enough to cut it. Thats why I stayed on the 45 per MVS. I have Jets from like 110-140 I think so i can do whatever with the main.
1986 Aero White -- Stock With Keli Var
1985 Aero Red -- Af05 Malossi BBK + Keli Var
1985 Aero Red -- Af16 Corsa / Fabrizi Pipe / Polini 24 PWK / Athena Stuffer Crank

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Re: Not getting all the way on pipe

Post by bonesv » Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:37 pm

The a/f screw should be just about one turn out which indicates the pilot is correct. I haven’t been on your other thread in a while so I’m not real sure where your needle is set at.
I would say 9:1 or 8:44 gears would give you best range to operate but you’d need a 1500 contra spring.
I don’t suggest messing around trying to adjust everything else just to avoid buying a 42 pilot jet but hey, it’s your time and money
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Re: Not getting all the way on pipe

Post by nateberrier » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:30 pm

bonesv wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:37 pm
The a/f screw should be just about one turn out which indicates the pilot is correct. I haven’t been on your other thread in a while so I’m not real sure where your needle is set at.
I would say 9:1 or 8:44 gears would give you best range to operate but you’d need a 1500 contra spring.
I don’t suggest messing around trying to adjust everything else just to avoid buying a 42 pilot jet but hey, it’s your time and money
My needle is wherever it was at from polini :eyeroll:

Im not past just buying a 42 but I figured its worth trying a 40 unless youre positive my corsa with a polini pwk 24 needs to be at a 42

Im not against going down to 9:1 either but im already terrified of my drum brakes at 50mph tbh
1986 Aero White -- Stock With Keli Var
1985 Aero Red -- Af05 Malossi BBK + Keli Var
1985 Aero Red -- Af16 Corsa / Fabrizi Pipe / Polini 24 PWK / Athena Stuffer Crank

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Re: Not getting all the way on pipe

Post by bonesv » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:58 pm

Well, I understand about the drum brakes for sure. I have the same concerns. A new set of wheels/shoes would surely ease the fear somewhat.
A disc brake is almost mandatory imo
Unless your corsa is heavily ported it should not require more than a 42 pilot jet on a POLINI PWK carburetor. OKO carbs however may need larger jets as I recall. Perhaps Joe was unaware of your brand of carb? Neither one of my unported corsa’s have needed bigger than a 42 pilot jet. Main jets are 120/122 both are polini 24mm pwk’s. Of course what style/type/brand of exhaust pipe can influence it. I live at sea level. Literally. And air temperature is usually above 78 for 9-10 months of the year so my jets are suited for this type of climate. You may need bigger jets if you are located in cooler climes. 😎 I remember my Fabrizi pipe didn’t like fat jetting so keep an eye on temps and see if it’s the same for you. 👍🏼
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Re: Not getting all the way on pipe

Post by kosmo » Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:31 pm

i got a crappy set of old stock ebc brakes once. about at the same time i got the bike. they couldnt lock up the rear tire for me, didnt like stopping.
I got a set of honda oem's and i think its the best drum braking you can have. i think it could do a front end stoppie or at least pretty good braking. try some if you ever get a chance. ive never tried any other brake s

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Re: Not getting all the way on pipe

Post by nateberrier » Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:46 am

bonesv wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:58 pm
Well, I understand about the drum brakes for sure. I have the same concerns. A new set of wheels/shoes would surely ease the fear somewhat.
A disc brake is almost mandatory imo
Unless your corsa is heavily ported it should not require more than a 42 pilot jet on a POLINI PWK carburetor. OKO carbs however may need larger jets as I recall. Perhaps Joe was unaware of your brand of carb? Neither one of my unported corsa’s have needed bigger than a 42 pilot jet. Main jets are 120/122 both are polini 24mm pwk’s. Of course what style/type/brand of exhaust pipe can influence it. I live at sea level. Literally. And air temperature is usually above 78 for 9-10 months of the year so my jets are suited for this type of climate. You may need bigger jets if you are located in cooler climes. 😎 I remember my Fabrizi pipe didn’t like fat jetting so keep an eye on temps and see if it’s the same for you. 👍🏼
My AF16 is on a honda aero, so im not sure if its even possible to add disks, if anyone has a path to getting that sorted i am listening.

I will try a 40 and if temps are high ill move up from there. I think he was telling me 118 that i started with would not be big enough as the fabrizi will want to rev high, but ill maybe bring it down to 120 and see where temps are. Im currently riding in like 40-50 degree weather.

My brakes right now are ebc in front and malossi in the back brand new
1986 Aero White -- Stock With Keli Var
1985 Aero Red -- Af05 Malossi BBK + Keli Var
1985 Aero Red -- Af16 Corsa / Fabrizi Pipe / Polini 24 PWK / Athena Stuffer Crank

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Re: Not getting all the way on pipe

Post by nateberrier » Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:55 am

WIthout getting off subject too much, i thought about buying something like this and modifying if necessary to run on my aero

https://www.scootertuning.ca/en/suspens ... o-red.html
1986 Aero White -- Stock With Keli Var
1985 Aero Red -- Af05 Malossi BBK + Keli Var
1985 Aero Red -- Af16 Corsa / Fabrizi Pipe / Polini 24 PWK / Athena Stuffer Crank

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Re: Not getting all the way on pipe

Post by bonesv » Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:25 pm

The 40 pilot change all by itself is all you need to change otherwise you could confuse a diagnosis of what needs to change next if anything.
As far as the disc brake for the aero 50 goes, I’m not sure but the ncy stem for the sa50 elite might work if you could find one, or have one made. The link you have shows a dio stem and would not fit unless you did this.... http://hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=30861
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Dio ZX Headlight/Disc Brake Mod: http://hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=30861

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Re: Not getting all the way on pipe

Post by nateberrier » Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:24 pm

bonesv wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:25 pm
The 40 pilot change all by itself is all you need to change otherwise you could confuse a diagnosis of what needs to change next if anything.
As far as the disc brake for the aero 50 goes, I’m not sure but the ncy stem for the sa50 elite might work if you could find one, or have one made. The link you have shows a dio stem and would not fit unless you did this.... http://hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=30861
Im going to work on the jetting this weekend hopefully. I am now on a rampage to determine how i should get a disk on the front of this fudge machine
1986 Aero White -- Stock With Keli Var
1985 Aero Red -- Af05 Malossi BBK + Keli Var
1985 Aero Red -- Af16 Corsa / Fabrizi Pipe / Polini 24 PWK / Athena Stuffer Crank

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Re: Not getting all the way on pipe

Post by bonesv » Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:37 pm

Either make one by welding the top half of aero stem to bottom half of a metro or dio stem. Contact Scooterswapshop.com owner Brandon for help as he has done this before (for the elite). I’m not sure if a ncy for elite stem would work without modifying something or not sure if a dio stem would work. I posted a link below in my signature that shows how to mod the elite frame but I swapped out the headlight also so not sure you want to go that route. I will let you know if I find out more about it but keep searching!👍🏼
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Dio ZX Headlight/Disc Brake Mod: http://hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=30861

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Re: Not getting all the way on pipe

Post by nateberrier » Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:01 pm

bonesv wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:37 pm
Either make one by welding the top half of aero stem to bottom half of a metro or dio stem. Contact Scooterswapshop.com owner Brandon for help as he has done this before (for the elite). I’m not sure if a ncy for elite stem would work without modifying something or not sure if a dio stem would work. I posted a link below in my signature that shows how to mod the elite frame but I swapped out the headlight also so not sure you want to go that route. I will let you know if I find out more about it but keep searching!👍🏼
I figured that welding the stems would be the best bet, some folks said that might unsafe because its cast or something. I really have no idea, but yeah facebook group nonsense. Im tempted to buy that dio stem thats listed under sa50 on scooter tuning if i can return it. If i change the stem I might just do naked bar at this point, but i dunno. I would also be happy to keep the oem one. i really just care about being able to stop lmao. trying to source a local metro stem now. I also have access to an oem sa50 stem
1986 Aero White -- Stock With Keli Var
1985 Aero Red -- Af05 Malossi BBK + Keli Var
1985 Aero Red -- Af16 Corsa / Fabrizi Pipe / Polini 24 PWK / Athena Stuffer Crank

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Re: Not getting all the way on pipe

Post by bonesv » Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:19 pm

I have a metro stem I’m not gonna use
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Dio ZX Headlight/Disc Brake Mod: http://hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=30861

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Re: Not getting all the way on pipe

Post by nateberrier » Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:50 pm

bonesv wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:19 pm
I have a metro stem I’m not gonna use
Go on....
1986 Aero White -- Stock With Keli Var
1985 Aero Red -- Af05 Malossi BBK + Keli Var
1985 Aero Red -- Af16 Corsa / Fabrizi Pipe / Polini 24 PWK / Athena Stuffer Crank

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