derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

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steffen707
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derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by steffen707 »

So wheelman and i have been discussing the de-restriction of my 01 elite S which has a cam on it to connect a split cable to give throttle controlled oil "addition".

In checking honda part numbers the S and SR have different oil pump numbers. Did all SR come with the split cable? Did any S come with split cable? How can you tell the difference of the 2 pumps, where is the part number stamped? And finally, is it necessary to buy a SR pump, rather than simply putting a split cable on your S that has the hookup for a split cable?

p.s. I have a 94 elite, which i was told is an S, but has a split cable on it, so i'm wondering if its actually an SR. Where would i check on the scoot to see if its an SR or if somebody just put a split cable on the scoot?
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by steffen707 »

I think I over thought something. With just the VN I should be able to tell if my frame originally had an SR right?
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by Wheelman-111 »

Greetings:

AFAIK all SR models in the US used the split throttle cable. I have read reports here that while the S models have a "Throttle" on the pump itself as well as the same holder bracket with the "arm" for the cable, none came with the split cable. Part numbers for the throttle cable would seem to support this.

What is not so certain is whether or not the S model oil pump is capable of delivering the same quantity of oil as the SR model's. If it were my scooter, I wouldn't take the chance. I'd get an SR pump if I planned to keep it stock-ish or plug the pump hole and run Premix (@32:1) if mods were planned. My Nikasil has run great (and showed NO wear) for over 1000 miles with cable-controlled pumpand 70:1 premix in the tank. YMMV.
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by tw39515 »

my 01 elite s had only single cable but i installed the y cable. mine is a sa50p
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by steffen707 »

Well i sent you the money for your SR pump wheelman.

I was thinking that i'm dumb enough and curious enough to try otr your graduated cylinder idea and run straight premix and let the oil pump pump the oil into a catch can of sorts with the stock pump and then with the SR pump.

I'm sure i can find out online what 32:1 is for ounces of oil per gallon, but can somebody tell me? Also is 32:1 enough oil for my stock bore running an aftermarket pipe and 88 jet?

I'm thinking if i mix up 1/2 gallon of mix and then just go for a 20mile WOT run till i run outa gas, then measure the amount of oil, this should settle it once and for all if there is a difference between the S and SR pumps both running a "Y" throttle cable.

I do have a fear about the homogeneous mixture of premix. Is the motor pulling the same amount of oil when full and same amount when almost empty? My fear being that when i'm about to run dry of premix, if all the oil settled to the bottom or to the top and i'm only getting gas for the last mile or something, i could blow the motor. I don't know much about premix and homogeneous-ness of it, can somebody chime in on this?
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
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Oil and Gas

Post by Wheelman-111 »

Greetings:

Once the gasoline has mixed with the oil, you probably couldn't separate them out again with a centrifuge. The two liquids are miscible, and the oil won't sink to the bottom. Over years of snowmobiling, the polyethylene tanks allow to see the fuel/oil mixture. I've never seen an oil level on top or bottom. The scooter bounces around enough anyway to keep things mixed thoroughly.

To get the ratio:
(Presuming you decide on 32:1, Honda-san's Motocross recommendation. Some people swear by 50:1, others insist 20:1 is the way to go.)
Divide the number of ounces of gasoline by 32. A gallon = 128 ounces. 128/32 = 4 ounces of oil. The trouble is that the gas pumps read in hundredths of a gallon, so if you buy 0.76 gallons of gas you have to convert to ounces.
0.76 gallons x 128 = 97 ounces. 97/32 = add a hair over 3 ounces. You can be off by 5% one way or t'other and it won't matter much for jetting. I've been working on the unverified presumption that the pump supplies something around 32:1 to a 50cc bore at WOT and max RPM. Based on this reasonable assumption, your jetting should stay the same when you go full premix. A few plug reads or CHT/EGT should confirm.

I hope you do the catch-can test. :ndance: We could all benefit knowing for a fact how much oil that pump * per gallon of gas consumed.
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"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by steffen707 »

i gotta find a very nice beaker of sorts that;ll hold like 12 ounces of fluid that is tall so you can clearly see how many ounces it "*". If i do this (and i probably will, maybe even as early as Friday), I'll test elite S without throttle control at WOT for .5 gallons, elite S with oil pump wired wide open for .5 gallons, and elite SR for .5 gallons at WOT. Then compare.

I'm guessing i have to ride the scooter for the full amount because if i just reved it max on its centerstand the scoot would hit higher rpms? Not to mention smoke out my backyard with oily residue.

I also need to get a pretty accurate half gallon container so i can repeat all steps. i'm guessing that pumping a half gallon of gas from the gas station 3 seperate times wouldn't be acurate, am i wrong?
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by Bear45-70 »

A peanut butter jar or a pickle jar will work just fine. You can check the volume with a syringe if nothing else.
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by steffen707 »

Bear45-70 wrote:A peanut butter jar or a pickle jar will work just fine. You can check the volume with a syringe if nothing else.
i'm planning on checking the volume on the road. where do they sell syringes that'll hold like 4 ounces? Fleet Farm?
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by Bear45-70 »

steffen707 wrote:
Bear45-70 wrote:A peanut butter jar or a pickle jar will work just fine. You can check the volume with a syringe if nothing else.
i'm planning on checking the volume on the road. where do they sell syringes that'll hold like 4 ounces? Fleet Farm?
I get my syringes from the wife. Para-medics use that kind of stuff all the time. I would suspect that a farm store would have the big stuff too. You don't really need a 4 oz syringe, a small cc one would work, you would need to fill it numerous times is all.
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'84 Aero 80 X 3

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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by steffen707 »

Bear45-70 wrote:
steffen707 wrote:
Bear45-70 wrote:A peanut butter jar or a pickle jar will work just fine. You can check the volume with a syringe if nothing else.
i'm planning on checking the volume on the road. where do they sell syringes that'll hold like 4 ounces? Fleet Farm?
I get my syringes from the wife. Para-medics use that kind of stuff all the time. I would suspect that a farm store would have the big stuff too. You don't really need a 4 oz syringe, a small cc one would work, you would need to fill it numerous times is all.
Well true, i'd like to do it in one swoop though.
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by eliteguy50 »

steffen707 wrote:So wheelman and i have been discussing the de-restriction of my 01 elite S which has a cam on it
I was about to call :bs: but thought I should keep reading first :oops:
steffen707 wrote:I think I over thought something. With just the VN I should be able to tell if my frame originally had an SR right?
Yes or you can crawl on your back and look on the monotube rail that goes under your footboard. It will have the vin, year, model all on a nice sticker.
steffen707 wrote:Is the motor pulling the same amount of oil when full and same amount when almost empty?
Yes, like Wheelman said 'these scoots bounce too much for it to separate. Over a very long period of undisturbed sitting, premix can start to separate by forming a film but it does not separate all the way like oil and water.
Bear45-70 wrote:A peanut butter jar or a pickle jar will work just fine. You can check the volume with a syringe if nothing else.
Be sure to pack a little more than just a jar to get back (you may be doing more down hill on your way out and more up hill on your way back so you can come up short).
Bear45-70 wrote:Para-medics use that kind of stuff all the time.
It is good to have nurse friends too
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by steffen707 »

What size I'd tubing is used off the ouput side of the oil pump? Fleetfarm only has 1/4 inch clear tube and I need it longer to mount my bottle, also where do you get it? I know somebody has put different line on their scoot before.
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
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steffen707
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by steffen707 »

Nevermind found 1/4 OD and 3/8 OD clear tube in the plumbing section. Sweet!
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
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steffen707
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by steffen707 »

So everything except the oil line i got from Walmart. Got a 1 gallon gas can to mix just one gallon of premix, that funnel thingy has liters quarts and ounces on it, so after i premix, i can drain the gas tank and put in just 32 ounces of mix. Then i got a chef's sauce squeeze bottle which has a sweet nipple on the top that will be perfect for the oil line to go into, just gotta poke a whole in the cap somewhere to let air out. Then I found a sweet measuring glass that shows mL and ounces as well. Also found a syringe for mixing gas that i might use depending on how the squeeze bottle and measuring glass work out. Either way I should have results for the stock S pump without throttle and wired completely open tomorrow. Im not sure if 32 ounces of premix will be enough to get a solid sample of oil from the pump, it'd only be about 1 ounce or 30ml, i might have to go 64 ounces of premix to get a large enough sampling so that i get an accurate reading to compare all 3 situations side by side. That will however take about 60 minutes of scooting per 64 ounce test at roughly 40mph if my scoot gets 80mpg.

THIS IS GUNNA SUCK.
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87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
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