No more than 10 mph
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- Goped
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No more than 10 mph
Hey gang! Long time no see.
So the spree season is back and I've pulled my 87 spree out of storage.
Ran beautifully after the fuel stabilizer burned through, until now.
The other night on the way home from work it died, I could maintain an idle but any throttle and it immediately would die. Bought a can of carb cleaner while walking it home and ran it through the carb while idling. This got it going again and I made it home.
Jump to today. It refused to go over 10mph, the engine wouldnt rev up to it's normal rate (my hearing test). It sounded like I was only at half throttle.
Swapped carb for a freshly cleaned one I had lying around, same symptoms. Checked fuel and vaccuum lines and everything seemed fine there. Throttle cabled seemed to be doing it's job, but I might just be a poor judge.
Also, I have a Gates 7240 belt on there which I had planned to swap to an OEM honda. Could slippage be the issue? I would think though, that if the belt was slipping, the motor would just overspin with no power being put out.
Sorry for the wall of text but I figured I'd try and give you guys as much info as possible.
-thekingof7
PS. Dont buy gates 7240 for the spree, it is garbage.
So the spree season is back and I've pulled my 87 spree out of storage.
Ran beautifully after the fuel stabilizer burned through, until now.
The other night on the way home from work it died, I could maintain an idle but any throttle and it immediately would die. Bought a can of carb cleaner while walking it home and ran it through the carb while idling. This got it going again and I made it home.
Jump to today. It refused to go over 10mph, the engine wouldnt rev up to it's normal rate (my hearing test). It sounded like I was only at half throttle.
Swapped carb for a freshly cleaned one I had lying around, same symptoms. Checked fuel and vaccuum lines and everything seemed fine there. Throttle cabled seemed to be doing it's job, but I might just be a poor judge.
Also, I have a Gates 7240 belt on there which I had planned to swap to an OEM honda. Could slippage be the issue? I would think though, that if the belt was slipping, the motor would just overspin with no power being put out.
Sorry for the wall of text but I figured I'd try and give you guys as much info as possible.
-thekingof7
PS. Dont buy gates 7240 for the spree, it is garbage.
Re: No more than 10 mph
in my experience , when you have a normal idle, and a normal first 1/4 throttle, but everything is flat after that, you have to much air / not enough fuel.
84 Aero af05e Ruckus variator, rear metro wheel, Leovince pipe ( work in process... porting , nh80 reeds intake carb)
- paulpauly7
- CB900F
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- Location: nz
Re: No more than 10 mph
it aint a slippen belt if the engine dont rev up
86 Nifty Fifty (spree)
ZX disk brake
Kitico 120kmh speedo
AF18 ZX ported
Polini corsa
Malossi crank
CTmani
24mmOKO
40pilot118main
Scorpion pipe
8.44 to 1
Michelin s1
71.3mph
92 yz125, 94 crm250
ZX disk brake
Kitico 120kmh speedo
AF18 ZX ported
Polini corsa
Malossi crank
CTmani
24mmOKO
40pilot118main
Scorpion pipe
8.44 to 1
Michelin s1
71.3mph
92 yz125, 94 crm250
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- Goped
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- Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:33 pm
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Re: No more than 10 mph
Well I was fiddling around with it some more. And I've got some good and weird news.
I tuned the carb per these intructions http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php5?t ... ts_-_Spree
Idles great, sounds fine.
I tried running it without the airbox or filter and it runs just fine, no speed issues. Even with only the boot hooked up (not connected to air box) the issues return.
Why would the motor not have enough vacuum to pull an adequate air amount through the filter?
Reeds? Piston?
Thanks guys.
I tuned the carb per these intructions http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php5?t ... ts_-_Spree
Idles great, sounds fine.
I tried running it without the airbox or filter and it runs just fine, no speed issues. Even with only the boot hooked up (not connected to air box) the issues return.
Why would the motor not have enough vacuum to pull an adequate air amount through the filter?
Reeds? Piston?
Thanks guys.
- patthesoundguy
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Re: No more than 10 mph
The spray carb cleaner won't do much. There is nothing to clean with it when spraying in the carb throat really. It will disperse the oil from the moving parts and cause issues though. Check the carb mounting bolts, air hose, air box lord and the air filter. If the air filter decided to rot and disintegrate then that could cause a lean issue. Which it sounds like to me. Busted reeds will be hard starting but will rev up after you hit a certain point. A spree may rev up on the stand with no air box or air filter, but as soon as you put it under load it will only go 10mph maybe or less or die altogether when you get off the pilot jet. Unless you up jet the carb by a ton you will be lean as hec and burn the thing up.
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Dude! Ya Can't Fix Stupid!
84 Spree stock
84 Spree Dio AF18E MHR Cylinder Arrow Pipe 28mm OKO
80 Express, 47mm DR BBKit, Weak Ends Intake, Boyesen Dual stage reeds, 19mm Delorto carb, MLM pipe
79 Express
85 Aero 80 stock
84 elite 125 stock
84 Spree stock
84 Spree Dio AF18E MHR Cylinder Arrow Pipe 28mm OKO
80 Express, 47mm DR BBKit, Weak Ends Intake, Boyesen Dual stage reeds, 19mm Delorto carb, MLM pipe
79 Express
85 Aero 80 stock
84 elite 125 stock
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- Goped
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Re: No more than 10 mph
I only did that spray to get moving again. That carb has been replaced on the ped with a freshly cleaned one, the old one is soaking now. The issue with 10 mph still happened with the cleaned carb. I noticed that with only the hose connected to the throat with no air box the speed issue still happens so the filter is fine.patthesoundguy wrote:The spray carb cleaner won't do much. There is nothing to clean with it when spraying in the carb throat really. It will disperse the oil from the moving parts and cause issues though. Check the carb mounting bolts, air hose, air box lord and the air filter. If the air filter decided to rot and disintegrate then that could cause a lean issue. Which it sounds like to me. Busted reeds will be hard starting but will rev up after you hit a certain point. A spree may rev up on the stand with no air box or air filter, but as soon as you put it under load it will only go 10mph maybe or less or die altogether when you get off the pilot jet. Unless you up jet the carb by a ton you will be lean as hec and burn the thing up.
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When driving breifly with no airbox attached, the startup was weak until I got up to speed.
Could this be reeds?
- patthesoundguy
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Re: No more than 10 mph
I had muched reeds and thats what it did. Just pull the intake tube off and have a look. You might be able to see down in the intake tube with a flash light. Also another cause of a bog way down low that revs up once you get above a certain point could be a worn cylinder and rings. Especially if the bog is worse the more you drive in a particular trip. I had this issue as well. Pull the head and have a look at how shiny the cylinder walls are. My spree had obsence Compression reading of 150 psi with no carbon build up.
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Dude! Ya Can't Fix Stupid!
84 Spree stock
84 Spree Dio AF18E MHR Cylinder Arrow Pipe 28mm OKO
80 Express, 47mm DR BBKit, Weak Ends Intake, Boyesen Dual stage reeds, 19mm Delorto carb, MLM pipe
79 Express
85 Aero 80 stock
84 elite 125 stock
84 Spree stock
84 Spree Dio AF18E MHR Cylinder Arrow Pipe 28mm OKO
80 Express, 47mm DR BBKit, Weak Ends Intake, Boyesen Dual stage reeds, 19mm Delorto carb, MLM pipe
79 Express
85 Aero 80 stock
84 elite 125 stock
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- Goped
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- Location: Wisconsin
Re: No more than 10 mph
Appreciate the advice. I'll have to check on the reeds once the rain ceases.
Are there any signs of wear for the reeds I should be watching for?
Thanks
Are there any signs of wear for the reeds I should be watching for?
Thanks
- Wheelman-111
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Re: No more than 10 mph
Greetings:
Broken corners, of course. But even if they're intact, the block must be removed to assess how/if they close all the way - stainless touching plastic to the tip. Hard starting, boggy low-end performance and normal high-speed operation are all symptoms of reed valve regurgitation.
Broken corners, of course. But even if they're intact, the block must be removed to assess how/if they close all the way - stainless touching plastic to the tip. Hard starting, boggy low-end performance and normal high-speed operation are all symptoms of reed valve regurgitation.
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
Re: No more than 10 mph
So it runs with the inlet air tube off, but not on? That's exactly the opposite of what usually happens. What you're describing sounds like running rich, but I'm not really sure why that would be the case.
After you've checked your intake (doesn't sound like reeds to me), I'd check your exhaust... port from piston out of jug, and exhaust itself. Perhaps plugged up.
After you've checked your intake (doesn't sound like reeds to me), I'd check your exhaust... port from piston out of jug, and exhaust itself. Perhaps plugged up.
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- patthesoundguy
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Re: No more than 10 mph
Wheelman is right, when my reeds got munched a year ago this week actually, it had the symptoms of running rich. And noise guy is also onto something with the pipe, mud dobbers love to make homes in the ends of pipes.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Dude! Ya Can't Fix Stupid!
84 Spree stock
84 Spree Dio AF18E MHR Cylinder Arrow Pipe 28mm OKO
80 Express, 47mm DR BBKit, Weak Ends Intake, Boyesen Dual stage reeds, 19mm Delorto carb, MLM pipe
79 Express
85 Aero 80 stock
84 elite 125 stock
84 Spree stock
84 Spree Dio AF18E MHR Cylinder Arrow Pipe 28mm OKO
80 Express, 47mm DR BBKit, Weak Ends Intake, Boyesen Dual stage reeds, 19mm Delorto carb, MLM pipe
79 Express
85 Aero 80 stock
84 elite 125 stock
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- Goped
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- Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:33 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
Re: No more than 10 mph
Sorry guys, I didn't realize all this advice had come in. Once home, Im gonna check compression. Then reeds.
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- Goped
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- Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:33 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
Re: No more than 10 mph
I'm resurrecting this thread.
I finally got around to checking the reeds. They looked fine.
The engine will not rev up after putting even just the boot in the carb intake. As soon as you remove the boot the RPMs go back up to "normal"
Just curious but would loose mounting bolts for the carb cause an issue similar to this? This old one are a bit stripped.
I'm baffled.
I finally got around to checking the reeds. They looked fine.
The engine will not rev up after putting even just the boot in the carb intake. As soon as you remove the boot the RPMs go back up to "normal"
Just curious but would loose mounting bolts for the carb cause an issue similar to this? This old one are a bit stripped.
I'm baffled.
- Wheelman-111
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- Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas
Re: No more than 10 mph
Greetings:
Quoth King7:
Quoth King7:
Uhhhm, yeah! That's a critical fault. Don't bother tuning anything else until you get that carb mount tight. Lotsa ways to do it. I favor tapping for 1/4 x 20 hardware store bolts - a bit larger, so a bit stronger, but don't over-torque or you start over. Drill the manifold/heat insulator to 17/64.Just curious but would loose mounting bolts for the carb cause an issue similar to this? This old one are a bit stripped.
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
-
- Goped
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:33 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
Re: No more than 10 mph
Thanks for the tip. I will likely try for some longer bolt with washers and nuts, compress that carb on there. Let you guys know how that goes.
-thekingof7
-thekingof7