Starter won't turn motor over

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pnutt
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Starter won't turn motor over

Post by pnutt » Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:25 pm

I used to be able to jump it off with the truck but now the starter bendix just hits the starter gear and grunts, like it doesn't have enough power to turn the engine over. I replaced the starter with another one but it does the same thing. I've also...

cleaned starter button
cleaned starter brushes....looked fine
compression is good
starter relay sanded down, points clean
bypassed battery thinking short in battery may reduce voltage to starter, hooked up straight to starter, same thing, just grunted
everything works, lights, headlight , blinkers, horn

I haven't started it in about a year but every year before that, car jumped it off fine,

Any suggestions?

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ferchja
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Post by ferchja » Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:53 pm

Sounds like you have a bad ground wire and or poor connection to the battery/source.

Check resistence on ground wire with battery installed between the terminal at the battery and the starter connection at the starter. My starter would not turn the crank more than 1 turn even with the spark plug removed. Traced back to bad ground.

Good luck!
Jeremy Ferch
1985 Spree (NQ50) - Mid restoration

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pnutt
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Post by pnutt » Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:22 pm

Good idea on the ground wire, I've remounted the ground and made sure it was clean, no luck though. If I remove the spark plug it'll turn over and over but seems too slow to start.

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ferchja
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Post by ferchja » Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:14 pm

You have either a poorly charged battery and/or bad wiring to the starter. Make sure if you are not using the battery that the jumper cables are making a solid connection. I would put the ground wire over a bolt and attach the jumper cable to that and get the positive to make as much contact on the terminal as possible.

Amps require a lot of wire/contact. If you have checked both the red and green wire with the battery attached and they show 0 Ohms of resistence even during cranking then your wires are good. The issue is in the starter, relay

When you had the starter apart did you lube the bearing surfaces both at the rear and near the gear? Did you sand the comm to a bright copper new penny shine and sanded the brushes smooth to see the copper in them? The starter is a pain in the ars to put back together, but that may be another part of the issue.

Another video I need to document regarding the sounds that a starter make. I can get mine to either turn like a top or not spin and just thump, to show the lack of wire contact to give the amps needed to turn the crank through compression.

Good luck!
Jeremy Ferch
1985 Spree (NQ50) - Mid restoration

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Post by noiseguy » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:14 am

Also check the bendix. These can be cleaned with WD40 and compressed air to blow out excess. Otherwise sounds like wiring to me too.
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Post by pnutt » Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:21 pm

Bendix works fine, ,no problems there, I may do some rewiring this weekend and see what happens. I did sand the shiny surfaces of the starter to make sure the contacts were good there. I had to be careful putting back together and not damage the brushes, kinda tricky but I got it back together and it still worked the same, I didn't lubricate it any though. Would greasing the starter inside help?

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DENMAN
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Post by DENMAN » Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:23 pm

my 86 spree has same problem. starts on first kick and runs great, but i have never been able to get the starter to work. cleaned everything and have put in brand new battery and starter relay but no action. i checked the wiring to the relay and it appears to be fine. problem could be a bad ground to the starter or somewhere else. there are points on the starter relay and when i close them manually, the starter spins just fine. i just cant seem to get enough current to the relay for some reason. i think you have to squeeze the brake lever to get the starter to work also and i have checked and cleaned that connection, but no action.

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vette76
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Post by vette76 » Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:29 pm

ur starter relay is bad.
00' sa-50 slammed and stretched
89' elite sb, with a 99' af16, (SOLD)
87' spree (SOLD
87' mustang gt vert kenne bell, irs.
90' mustang notch turbo drag car
12' wrx

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Post by DENMAN » Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:29 pm

vette76 wrote:ur starter relay is bad.
I bought a brand new one and the result was the same: pushing button while holding in brake(s) fails to cause any activity at starter relay. But if I manually close the points, the starter will spin and start the engine.I am more inclined toward a bad ground somewhere in starting system, but I have just never been able to find it. Once I figured out the thing had a magneto, I just started kicking it off.

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pnutt
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Post by pnutt » Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:38 pm

I found out the problem finally, the brushes are bad, I've order two sets since the starter that I bought used has worn out brushes as well. I'll rebuild the other starter I have and will be selling it sometime if anyone needs a "new" starter.....thanks for all of the replys!

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Post by vette76 » Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:47 pm

where the * did u find a rebuild kit? i couldnt find one anywhere.
00' sa-50 slammed and stretched
89' elite sb, with a 99' af16, (SOLD)
87' spree (SOLD
87' mustang gt vert kenne bell, irs.
90' mustang notch turbo drag car
12' wrx

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pnutt
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Post by pnutt » Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:14 am

I found a guy on ebay that was selling motorcycle starter brushes and he had 7 sets for the exact serial number of the stater for a spree. This was his ad........THESE ARE NEW IN PACK FOR A STARTER ,QUALITY BRUSHES, THESE NEW BRUSHES ARE FOR HONDA NQ50 ESPIRIT 1984-1987 STARTER NUMBER GK-8-781 MITUSBA . I bought two so now he only has 5.

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pnutt
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Post by pnutt » Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:21 am

The person selling these brushes is ebay member mostrvparts2005 if anyone else is interested. I paid 9.75 per set because I was the only one that bid but his buy it now price was 14.00.

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Post by DENMAN » Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:05 pm

I HAVE FOOLED WITH MY NON FUNCTIONING STARTER UNTIL I AM READY TO PUKE. IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE THE PROBLEM IS A DROP IN VOLTAGE AT THE STARTER RELAY. I GET 1.5 V LOWER READING WHEN PRESSING STARTER BUTTON AND HOLDING IN BRAKES COMPARED TO VOLTAGE ACROSS NEW, FULLY CHARGED BATTERY. I SUSPECT 11.0 V IS JUST NOT ENOUGH TO ENERGIZE THE COIL AND CLOSE THE POINTS ON THE STARTER. I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE THE VOLTAGE DROP IS OCCURING. HELP!!
I HAVE REMOVED THE STARTER AND WHEN I CLOSE THE POINTS, IT SPINS LIKE A TOP.
IT ALSO APPEARS TO ME THAT THE STARTER BUTTON JUST COMPLETES A GROUND AT THE STARTER RELAY, AND THE VOLTAGE IS COMING THRU THE BRAKE WIRES. CORRECT?

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vette76
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Post by vette76 » Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:28 pm

take the starter button apart and clean with sand paper. they like to corrode.
00' sa-50 slammed and stretched
89' elite sb, with a 99' af16, (SOLD)
87' spree (SOLD
87' mustang gt vert kenne bell, irs.
90' mustang notch turbo drag car
12' wrx

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