Gearing Stock and Aftermarket Tooth Tally
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- Wheelman-111
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Gearing Stock and Aftermarket Tooth Tally
Greetings:
I thought I'd get the ball rolling for a Tech Doc that would let us know the stock ratios and calculate what happens when we change to aftermarket ratios. Copy, reply and fill in the blanks.
US Market Scooters:
1993 - 1984 NB50M Aero:
1985 - 1987 NB50 Aero
1987 SE50 Elite
1988-1993 Elite
Variator ratio:
Variable speed Constant velocity belt drive goes from 2.4:1 at idle to 0.8:1
Stock:
Primary ratio = 12/34
Secondary ratio = 12/47
= 11.097:1
Overall ratio: Variator-dependent overall gearing from 26.63:1 to 8.88:1
Malossi 67-6458 Primary replacement gears: (Only gearset available)
16/32
= 7.83:1
1984-1987 NQ50 Spree
Fixed belt drive ratio:
Single gear ratio:
Overall gear ratio:
1988-1989 SB50 Elite "E"
Fixed belt drive ratio:
Single gear ratio:
Overall gear ratio:
Euro/Asian Market Scooters:
Dio ZX:
I thought I'd get the ball rolling for a Tech Doc that would let us know the stock ratios and calculate what happens when we change to aftermarket ratios. Copy, reply and fill in the blanks.
US Market Scooters:
1993 - 1984 NB50M Aero:
1985 - 1987 NB50 Aero
1987 SE50 Elite
1988-1993 Elite
Variator ratio:
Variable speed Constant velocity belt drive goes from 2.4:1 at idle to 0.8:1
Stock:
Primary ratio = 12/34
Secondary ratio = 12/47
= 11.097:1
Overall ratio: Variator-dependent overall gearing from 26.63:1 to 8.88:1
Malossi 67-6458 Primary replacement gears: (Only gearset available)
16/32
= 7.83:1
1984-1987 NQ50 Spree
Fixed belt drive ratio:
Single gear ratio:
Overall gear ratio:
1988-1989 SB50 Elite "E"
Fixed belt drive ratio:
Single gear ratio:
Overall gear ratio:
Euro/Asian Market Scooters:
Dio ZX:
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
Re: For Tech Docs: Tooth Tally & Gear Ratios
94+ US Elite (dudeswapinadio)
Primary: 12x42
Secondary: 13x45
= 12.11:1
Aftermarket Secondary(final) gears:
9.8:1 = 15x42
9.1:1 = 16x42
8.4:1 = 17x41
7.5:1 = 18x39
Aftermarket Primary gears:
6.9:1 = 15x30
6.5:1 = 16x30
Primary: 12x42
Secondary: 13x45
= 12.11:1
Aftermarket Secondary(final) gears:
9.8:1 = 15x42
9.1:1 = 16x42
8.4:1 = 17x41
7.5:1 = 18x39
Aftermarket Primary gears:
6.9:1 = 15x30
6.5:1 = 16x30
In 2040 they say we're going away
We could never let them control
Hawaiian man, take back your hawaiian land
We could never let them control
Hawaiian man, take back your hawaiian land
-
- Veteran OG
- Posts: 3639
- Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 8:10 pm
- Location: North of Seattle, WA
Re: For Tech Docs: Tooth Tally & Gear Ratios
Updated Spreadsheet - Rev 2b - added 20/36 secondary gear set to table
Updated Spreadsheet - Rev 2a - added 18/41 secondary gear set to table. Added 16/32 gear set on eliteguy50's input. Also updated 1983/4 Aero ratio to 7.99 to align with the Honda Service manual. Minor typo - 85 Aero has same gears at 86/87.
Updated Spreadsheet - Rev 2a - added 18/41 secondary gear set to table. Added 16/32 gear set on eliteguy50's input. Also updated 1983/4 Aero ratio to 7.99 to align with the Honda Service manual. Minor typo - 85 Aero has same gears at 86/87.
- Wheelman-111
- Moderator
- Posts: 11319
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas
Aftermarket Spreadsheet Line Item
Greetings:
I kept this a secret, lest I jinx my recent purchase. I've had my lesson with the ill-fated Wild Lion That Never Was from Malossi USA. Anyhow these:
Showed up as promised via UPS tonight. Well, almost as promised. They were supposed to be new, but they were dripping with gear oil (that unmistakable aroma of Crusty's Garage...) and a few flecks of red paint for some reason. The Husky countershaft sits in its #4 gear there on the left. The seller even forgot to remove the shim washer, which was stuck to the countershaft gear! No matter, they're not worn as far as the eye can see, and they're - get this! - 20 x 36.
That's right, you read correctly. 20 x 36 Secondaries. I had the seller throw in a used Elite axle for an extra couple of bucks. I'll have Honda-san press the stock #4 gear off and install the 36- (counted 'em!)-tooth axle gear manana. The axle is the "early" one with the shaft end cut for a 6303 bearing, just like Flash 4's cover. Quick-change ratio swaps.
Combined with the 12/42 primaries, this yields a 6.3:1 final drive ratio. What remains to be seen is if Flash 4 has the torque to drive these babies off the line. Or up hills. One thing's for sure, top speed should go up a bit, as long as there's light rollers in the vario and/or a tailwind.
Mouse, could you add this option to the spreadsheet? Not sure where they came from, not sure if they're still available, but I lucked out on eBay this time.
I kept this a secret, lest I jinx my recent purchase. I've had my lesson with the ill-fated Wild Lion That Never Was from Malossi USA. Anyhow these:
Showed up as promised via UPS tonight. Well, almost as promised. They were supposed to be new, but they were dripping with gear oil (that unmistakable aroma of Crusty's Garage...) and a few flecks of red paint for some reason. The Husky countershaft sits in its #4 gear there on the left. The seller even forgot to remove the shim washer, which was stuck to the countershaft gear! No matter, they're not worn as far as the eye can see, and they're - get this! - 20 x 36.
That's right, you read correctly. 20 x 36 Secondaries. I had the seller throw in a used Elite axle for an extra couple of bucks. I'll have Honda-san press the stock #4 gear off and install the 36- (counted 'em!)-tooth axle gear manana. The axle is the "early" one with the shaft end cut for a 6303 bearing, just like Flash 4's cover. Quick-change ratio swaps.
Combined with the 12/42 primaries, this yields a 6.3:1 final drive ratio. What remains to be seen is if Flash 4 has the torque to drive these babies off the line. Or up hills. One thing's for sure, top speed should go up a bit, as long as there's light rollers in the vario and/or a tailwind.
Mouse, could you add this option to the spreadsheet? Not sure where they came from, not sure if they're still available, but I lucked out on eBay this time.
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
- Wheelman-111
- Moderator
- Posts: 11319
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas
Re: Gearing Stock and Aftermarket Tooth Tally
Greetings:
Another oddball gearset came WHAC's way. 18x41 secondaries calculate to 7.97:1. Need another spreadsheet mod?
Another oddball gearset came WHAC's way. 18x41 secondaries calculate to 7.97:1. Need another spreadsheet mod?
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
-
- Veteran OG
- Posts: 3639
- Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 8:10 pm
- Location: North of Seattle, WA
Re: Gearing Stock and Aftermarket Tooth Tally
Table here and on the wiki is updated. Also - the 84/85 Aero gear ratio is updated, service manual shows the ratio as being different from the AF05 variated engines. Tooth counts were not in the manual, am still looking. Anyone know what they are - or if the interchange of the early Aero gears into later models are?
- Wheelman-111
- Moderator
- Posts: 11319
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas
Re: Gearing Stock and Aftermarket Tooth Tally
Greetings;
Don't have the Tooth Tally for '83 and '84, but don't think they swap with '85-'87. Bought an '84 M cover by mistake and found the bearings were smaller.
It's fascinating how many changes Honda-san made, and yet how little the scooters really changed - at least in spirit.
BTW there are also 19/38 secondaries for a 7;1 ratio for Dii that fit the Elites.
Don't have the Tooth Tally for '83 and '84, but don't think they swap with '85-'87. Bought an '84 M cover by mistake and found the bearings were smaller.
It's fascinating how many changes Honda-san made, and yet how little the scooters really changed - at least in spirit.
BTW there are also 19/38 secondaries for a 7;1 ratio for Dii that fit the Elites.
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
- Wheelman-111
- Moderator
- Posts: 11319
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas
Re: Gearing Stock and Aftermarket Tooth Tally
Greetings:
Evidently some Euro Dio models arrived bearing 12/34 primaries. I know because I have a set. Spreadsheet mod time?
Evidently some Euro Dio models arrived bearing 12/34 primaries. I know because I have a set. Spreadsheet mod time?
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
-
- Veteran OG
- Posts: 3639
- Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 8:10 pm
- Location: North of Seattle, WA
Re: Gearing Stock and Aftermarket Tooth Tally
Wheelman strikes again, more gears than most Do you have a link to a seller?
Link: Wiki's updated gear chart
Link: Wiki's updated gear chart
- Wheelman-111
- Moderator
- Posts: 11319
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas
Re: Gearing Stock and Aftermarket Tooth Tally
Greetings:
Sadly no link for Aftermarket sellers of the 12/34 primaries.
I found them on eBay.UK, bought the whole gearset for the 7.5: secondaries I can't use without a "late" single-bearing cover.
Anyone with an SK50 Dio should have them as stock gears, and keep that in mind when ordering gears that purport to be "9:1". With Legendary Wheelman math "skills" I can calculate true overall ratio,
12/34 was also stock Aero primary ratio, but of course with the 12/47 seondaries that means 11.097:1.
Sadly no link for Aftermarket sellers of the 12/34 primaries.
I found them on eBay.UK, bought the whole gearset for the 7.5: secondaries I can't use without a "late" single-bearing cover.
Anyone with an SK50 Dio should have them as stock gears, and keep that in mind when ordering gears that purport to be "9:1". With Legendary Wheelman math "skills" I can calculate true overall ratio,
12/34 was also stock Aero primary ratio, but of course with the 12/47 seondaries that means 11.097:1.
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
- Wheelman-111
- Moderator
- Posts: 11319
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas
Yet Another Ratio
Greetings:
From EliteGuy50 cometh:
From EliteGuy50 cometh:
Time for another Spreadsheet mod?Another secondary set for the chart with a ratio of 8.96875:1 so basically they are 9:1. The gears are 16x41 found at VT Cycles. If these become more poplular, we will have to start calling the 16x42 set 9.19:1 or 9.2:1 instead of just 9.1:1 that it is referred to as now.
-JD
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
-
- Veteran OG
- Posts: 3639
- Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 8:10 pm
- Location: North of Seattle, WA
Re: Gearing Stock and Aftermarket Tooth Tally
New ratios are being posted into the 'wiki.
We have 16/41 and 19/37 updated at this link...
--
mousewheels
We have 16/41 and 19/37 updated at this link...
--
mousewheels