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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:33 pm 
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Elite
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Location: Central, WI
I read that you're not suppose to change the clutch center spring on a stock engine elite. Why not? Woulding raising the stall speed help the scooter take off better and climb hills better?

Also what do the clutch shoe springs do? What would stronger springs do to the scooter here?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:38 pm 
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CBR1000RR
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Center=how fast it shifts
Clutch springs= when it kicks in

If my understanding is correct the trans could if improperly tuned upshift before engaging the clutch. A stiffer center should keep the RPM higher and more in the power band.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:33 pm 
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So the clutch springs would be more of the stall converter in a automatic transmission right?

Stiffer clutch springs and the pads won't engage till a higher speed. Guess this is also something you just gotta play with huh?

Oh and on vtcycles they have a "OKO OEM Style Dio Clutch Assembly". Now can you change the center spring and clutch springs on that unit? Does that also come with a new clutch bell anybody know?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:46 pm 
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CBR1000RR
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Not that familiar with car transmissions.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:09 pm 
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basically the stall speed is the rpm that the motor has to go above before the torque converter will lock up, and start turning the wheels.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:17 pm 
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CBR1000RR
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Sort of like that but there is no transfer before lockup, no middle ground. Its either engaged, not engaged or slipping from overload.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:29 pm 
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Elite
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Can you answer this question

Oh and on vtcycles they have a "OKO OEM Style Dio Clutch Assembly". Now can you change the center spring and clutch springs on that unit or do you have to buy a more expensive unit? Does that also come with a new clutch bell anybody know?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:33 am 
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the center spring is also called the "contra" spring because it contrasts what the rollers in the variator are trying to do. heavier rollers need a heavier contra spring, and vice versa. if you didnt want to put lighter rollers in, you could install a heavier contra spring and it would make the rollers relatively lighter, causing the transmission to shift later, keeping rpms higher into the powerband. the clutch springs determine when the clutch engages. its like dropping the clutch at 1000rpm vs 5000rpm.
any oem clutch has springs that can be fiddled with. i spent a bunch of time playing around with my stock clutch before going to the malossi delta clutch. i dont know if that one comes with a clutch bell or not, i think its the same size since nb50/se50/sa50 all use the same clutch assembly.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:12 am 
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scooterwerx wrote:
the center spring is also called the "contra" spring because it contrasts what the rollers in the variator are trying to do. heavier rollers need a heavier contra spring, and vice versa. if you didnt want to put lighter rollers in, you could install a heavier contra spring and it would make the rollers relatively lighter, causing the transmission to shift later, keeping rpms higher into the powerband. the clutch springs determine when the clutch engages. its like dropping the clutch at 1000rpm vs 5000rpm.
any oem clutch has springs that can be fiddled with. i spent a bunch of time playing around with my stock clutch before going to the malossi delta clutch. i dont know if that one comes with a clutch bell or not, i think its the same size since nb50/se50/sa50 all use the same clutch assembly.


How much was the molossi delta clutch, and why did you switch to that over the stock type? Oh and reason why I asked is cuz my scooter was in an accident, and the clutch bell has been damaged. it wobbles, and that's not good for anything.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:59 am 
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ya thats never good! when it engages it feels *, eh? the malossi was kinda pricey, about 120 bucks, but it has 27 position adjustment, and you can even change the polar moment of inertia on the pads themselves, changing to way in which they engage! its very well worth the extra $$$ IMO. its been worth every penny to me so far. the stock clutch was ok, but for high rpm engagement, the 20 year old pads were not up to it! i would rather spend money on aftermarket performance parts that improve performance, than stock parts that are expensive and do not. malossi offers a clutch bell with a safety reinforcement ring built in, as well as a stock replacement. polini and some others make kickass ones with cooling fins and such.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:27 pm 
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scooterwerx wrote:
ya thats never good! when it engages it feels *, eh? the malossi was kinda pricey, about 120 bucks, but it has 27 position adjustment, and you can even change the polar moment of inertia on the pads themselves, changing to way in which they engage! its very well worth the extra $$$ IMO. its been worth every penny to me so far. the stock clutch was ok, but for high rpm engagement, the 20 year old pads were not up to it! i would rather spend money on aftermarket performance parts that improve performance, than stock parts that are expensive and do not. malossi offers a clutch bell with a safety reinforcement ring built in, as well as a stock replacement. polini and some others make kickass ones with cooling fins and such.

Where do you find the polini and molossi clutches? And by 27 position adjustment what does that mean Thought you could only change the clutch springs?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:12 am 
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jonsteffen wrote:
Where do you find the polini and molossi clutches?


I would talk to Tru72 on here or Veedub and ask them first, if they dont have anything then I would call VT up.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:20 pm 
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CB900F
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the center spring has differ rates of load. 1,000 ,1500 and 2000.

engine stall speed up and raise rpm more than center stock spring. 1500 is a good power w/ stock honda belt., Just leave rear driven pulley /shoes/ bell cover from honda parts! you cant go wrong with the set up and made to last longer, than taiwan rear pulley zx tranny. Just stick with Honda Genuine parts.


keli pulley are good!

2000 rpm center spring is too much and strect power of a belt.


9:1 , 8.4 8:1 is a good gears , hint small number ratio # need to back down to less roller grams weight and tune jets of a carb.


polini/malossi clutch must run with aftermarket bell from polini/malossi.



:)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:30 am 
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i dont know about polini, but i got my clutch from malossi USA.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:46 am 
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scooterwerx wrote:
i dont know about polini, but i got my clutch from malossi USA.


Can you order straight from the malossi website? Did you get the "fly" or "delta" clutch?

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