'87 Elite 50 (SE50P) top speed?

Does your Spree/Elite already run great, and you're trying to make it quicker/faster? Need a monster motor swap? Discuss your ideas here.

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nightcruiser
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Re: '87 Elite 50 (SE50P) top speed?

Post by nightcruiser »

eliteguy50 wrote:Those look like tuning rollers, I wouldn't run them long term. If his offer is still open, you could sell the Polini ramp at a discount and get the free SA50 ramp.

SEF ramps usually sell for $15. I think Daytona ramps are $25. That is the only Polini ramp I've seen sold individually so I guess they go for $50.
Well, I was up against a wall with no NOS or OEM parts available to me, and nobody offering to sell me the parts here in the forum, nowhere to buy the parts new, and nothing to compare to. Trust me, I tried. So this is what I ended up with, assuming the selling was telling me and selling me the right stuff. I guess I will have to contact him about the rollers, which really sucks becuase I just want to put this d*** thing in my scooter and ride over 30MPH. I didn't expect such a song and dance.

I appreciate your info and your offer, but I have to admit it is a bit frustrating that it came AFTER I had already paid more than I wanted to spend for a ramp. I just want to get this thing so I can ride on a 30MPH street without traffic crawling up my *....
Last edited by nightcruiser on Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: '87 Elite 50 (SE50P) top speed?

Post by Trafficjamz »

nightcruiser wrote: I just want to get this thing so I can ride on a 30MPH street without traffic crawling up my *....

You will be very happy with that ramp plate and roller setup.

i run those same polini rollers in my drag bike. :thumbwink:



You will notice a difference in top speed and acceleration with that setup.
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Re: '87 Elite 50 (SE50P) top speed?

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Well, the ebay seller was gracious enough to allow me to cancel the order for the Polini ramp plate (during a phone call where he tried to up sell me from $50 to $100, for me $50 was already too much for the plate and rollers)
So it's back to the drawing board I guess...
To recap, I have a fully stock 1987 Elite 50 (SE50P-A) with a restricted variator, the top speed is about 28MPH right now. I am looking to de-restrict the variator (only, no mods to the motor) in hopes to reach speeds over 30MPH preferably the upper 30's.
I would like to accomplish this as cheaply as possible, I know I need at minimum a non restricted ramp plate, not sure if my variator and rollers will work with a non restricted ramp (?), if not then I guess I will need them to...
I checked out VT cycles, they have listed a complete variator for the SE50 for $50, but they say "Contact for availability". I emailed them and got no reply, called and got no answer. Both the voice mail and email messages from VT cycles say basically "Don't pester us" so I only attempted to contact them once (as directed). I have been searching online (again) and I cant find another source to purchase a similar variator (kit) in that price range (I dont want to spend $100 for some race variator for side street riding).
If anyone could help me sort my variator out once and for all I would be eternally grateful. Sell me the parts, direct me to a store I can actually purchase the parts from, whatever. As long as it fits my scooter and gets me into the mid 30MPH range I'll be happy.
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Re: '87 Elite 50 (SE50P) top speed?

Post by Wheelman-111 »

Greetings:

Quoth NightCruiser:
I am looking to de-restrict the variator (only, no mods to the motor) in hopes to reach speeds over 30MPH preferably the upper 30's.
If by "no motor mods" you mean you won't address the too-small main jet in the carb and the Oil Shortage that occurs when the RPM and output go up by 30%, then you won't be "NightCruiser" for long. You'll be "NightPusher", as in wheeling the disabled scooter home after it seizes.

Instructions are here in Tech or Wiki; basically remove the exhaust header's restrictive washer (or procure the correct un-restricted pipe), install Honda's own or a good Aftermarket vario with the correct (8.5-gram) rollers, (DayWOT on Ebay's Keli PLUS a stock or AM ramp plate) AND you MUST put the proper jet in the carb and either add a little (120:1) oil in the tank or install the proper oil pump and split cable. Doing just the variator and pipe, it should hit 39 or more, but it won't for long. You've been advised.
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Re: '87 Elite 50 (SE50P) top speed?

Post by martynkim »

85 jet and wire the pump wide open.
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Re: '87 Elite 50 (SE50P) top speed?

Post by nightcruiser »

Perhaps I have a misconception here... I assumed if I run the motor stock, at stock RPMs as I am now, and change to a non-restricted variator the motor should be OK? The variator would allow the belt to ride higher on the pulley and thus propel me faster with the same RPM from the engine? If I don't change the exhaust or jet wouldn't the motor be happy, are you saying that is not safe for the engine?
I have no problem jetting the carb, I would probably just drill out the jet I have (free!), I just don't have the cash to spend for the rest of the parts right now, and would prefer to leave the motor alone if at all possible. I just want to do 35MPH when needed, I dont need a speed demon...
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Re: '87 Elite 50 (SE50P) top speed?

Post by martynkim »

A jet from honda is $5 or less. DO NOT DRILL.
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Re: '87 Elite 50 (SE50P) top speed?

Post by nightcruiser »

martynkim wrote:A jet from honda is $5 or less. DO NOT DRILL.
yah, but shipping is probably more than the jet, or gas to drive to some honda shop. I just bought the 90/90 rear Pirelli tire and tube, cheap yet more than I wanted to spend, it is a safety issue so my money went in that direction.
At any rate, I drill the jets for my motorized bicycle, I have the proper drill set, it's always worked out well for me. I would want to jet the carb and mod the exhaust at the same time if I were to do that, but I still think I am gonna pass on doing any motor mods this season.
If I can just get my variator de-restricted I will ride happily and not beat it or run it WOT enough to burn it up. Throwing a little extra 2-stroke oil into the tank is no big deal if that will make her happier. Maybe next year I will be able to do the motor mods, we only have a few months of summer left anyways...
Can someone please help me with the VARIATOR?
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Re: '87 Elite 50 (SE50P) top speed?

Post by martynkim »

nightcruiser wrote:
martynkim wrote:A jet from honda is $5 or less. DO NOT DRILL.
yah, but shipping is probably more than the jet, or gas to drive to some honda shop. I just bought the 90/90 rear Pirelli tire and tube, cheap yet more than I wanted to spend, it is a safety issue so my money went in that direction.
At any rate, I drill the jets for my motorized bicycle, I have the proper drill set, it's always worked out well for me. I would want to jet the carb and mod the exhaust at the same time if I were to do that, but I still think I am gonna pass on doing any motor mods this season.
If I can just get my variator de-restricted I will ride happily and not beat it or run it WOT enough to burn it up. Throwing a little extra 2-stroke oil into the tank is no big deal if that will make her happier. Maybe next year I will be able to do the motor mods, we only have a few months of summer left anyways...
Can someone please help me with the VARIATOR?

My beginnings with my SE50P http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=12723
Need parts? Parting out Spree Aero and Elite!
What people share about buying from me http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewto ... =1&t=15559
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Re: '87 Elite 50 (SE50P) top speed?

Post by JJ Joseph »

nightcruiser wrote:
martynkim wrote:At any rate, I drill the jets for my motorized bicycle, I have the proper drill set, it's always worked out well for me.
DON'T DRILL is good advice. Once you've drilled your jet, there's no turning back. Jets are cheap from any motorcycle shop, and you need several sizes to tune a 2-stroke machine. One size too big or small can make your engine run like a dog, so buy several jet sizes, and don't drill any of them :-)
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Re: '87 Elite 50 (SE50P) top speed?

Post by nightcruiser »

JJ Joseph wrote:
nightcruiser wrote:
martynkim wrote:At any rate, I drill the jets for my motorized bicycle, I have the proper drill set, it's always worked out well for me.
DON'T DRILL is good advice. Once you've drilled your jet, there's no turning back. Jets are cheap from any motorcycle shop, and you need several sizes to tune a 2-stroke machine. One size too big or small can make your engine run like a dog, so buy several jet sizes, and don't drill any of them :-)
I don't understand why you guys are so against drilling the jet? First of all, if I drill too large, no biggie, new jets are cheap, right? So just replace it. Or I could solder the jet closed and drill it out smaller, but like you said, since jets are so cheap I would probably just get a new jet. Furthermore, I recall reading the wiki on this and it says the restricted model jet is the same size as the non-restricted model?... but the muffler is different...
At any rate, I'm not out to mod the motor, I just want to de-restrict the variator. I had tried to buy a Polini ramp plate off ebay, that fell through. I decided to take a chance on a complete variator that I found but I haven't received it yet...
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Re: '87 Elite 50 (SE50P) top speed?

Post by nightcruiser »

UPDATE:

I've made some progress toward getting the speed I am looking for out of my Elite50 (restricted SE50P), here's what I've done....

The first thing I did was replace the rear tire with a Pirelli SL-26 90/90J-10, which is a bit larger than the stock tire. This got my speed up from around 27-28MPH to about 30-31MPH. The tire itself was a tight fit on the rim, so I ended up taking it down to the local service station and had those guys use their tire machine to change the tire. You have to remove the side panel and the exhaust to get the tire off the scooter, which seems like a bigger deal than it really is. The tire looked like it might be too big at first, and did seem to rub a bit somewhere. However, upon inspection it was only rubbing on a mud flap that sits in front of the motor. No biggie, it's lightweight plastic and wore in quickly.... (Since I didn't change the front tire the speedometer still measures accurately)

I took a chance and ordered this KOSO variator kit off Ebay, it was cheap, about $35 delivered. The only catch was the only seller I could find was in Taiwan. I decided to take a chance and ordered it, prepared to wait. I ordered on the 22nd and received it on the 30th, not too bad at all coming from the other side of the planet! Here is a link to that auction. http://www.ebay.com/itm/110638917265?it ... m=&vxp=mtr

The variator fit right on perfectly, it was a pretty easy installation over-all actually. I didn't have the special tool to lock the kick-start gear to get it apart, I used a square shaft screwdriver wedged in there to lock it, and a socket wrench with a breaker bar on the nut. Since everything fit perfectly re-assembly was a breeze....

With the new variator (and Pirelli 90/90) I now top out at about 37-38MPH on flat land and going down hill the restriction of the variator is clearly gone, the scooter will now accelerate for all she's worth! I have only taken a short ride and haven't really pushed her, and don't plan too, I am happy to now be able to ride at 30-35MPH comfortably on the road so I can flow with traffic. I am really happy with my progress (so far), and think a 10MPH gain is a great result...

My only complaint might be the new variator seems to have slightly less acceleration. The rollers that came with the kit were 9g, I'm thinking they aren't the optimal weight rollers, at least for acceleration. Haven't ridden it much yet to get a feel for it, not sure if I need to go heavier or lighter on the rollers? What do you guys think?

I guess next stop would be to de-restrict the muffler, kinda was thinking about that when I changed the tire but didn't want to mess with it. I noticed on the wiki page that the SE50 and the SE50P have the same size jet, not sure you guys say I should change the jet because you recommend I go larger than stock? I'm kinda happy now, and fall is pretty much upon us, so that may be an over the winter project for me...

... but right now it's a warm Holiday weekend so I'm gonna ride!

Thanks a million to anyone who has helped me here...
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